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Written by Sentinel-Tribune Staff   
Wednesday, 10 February 2010 13:54
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To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it useyourhead 2009-12-02 15:15:51 GCitizen. I'm sorry to hear about your MIL. I am assuming your MIL was retired? Medicare was not available? Medicaid Spend-Down? HRSA, Federally-funded health centers care for youB, even if you have no health insurance. You pay what you can afford, based on your income. http://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/ I am saying there are many programs already in place that people may not know about. What I am sick of, is people calling others "cold-hearted bastards" when they have absolutely no idea. Health care reform is needed, I have said that many times. The public option is not the answer. If you believe either party has our, the peoples, best interest in mind, you are sadly mistaken. There are so many programs already in place. If there ends up being a "public option" are all those other programs going to go away? You know the one that are already federally funded, state and county programs?
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it brutus 2009-12-02 15:59:41 $8.00, $9.00, oh they are moving on up. At least $12.00 with insurance coverage so the rest of us don't have to subsidize these private companies. We all have to pay if they get food stamps, health care, rent assistance. And just because some places have to take cuts because of failed Republican policies, doesn't mean everyone should. The best times in this country were in the 60's and 70's when unions were strong. Then along came Reagan who declared war on unions and the middle class. And here we are.
Otsego takes step to build school PPF Otsego Supporter 2009-12-02 16:50:02 I am not only the PPF Supporter, but am damn proud of Otsego! I am being called out by a couple writers. I accept that and support their right to free speech. Let me answer them as well as I can, one at a time. First OTres- You made me reread my comments. So let's be clear, I did not say, nor is any of us human beings ever perfect. It is not obvious, and I am not in favor of ever circumventing voters wishes. We voters elected this board to do a job for us. We voters elected them and they did what we elected them to do, carefully and correctly lead our district. You've made several assumptions about my beliefs, which just happen to be incorrect. Let me tell you what I do believe. The citizens of Otsego Schools have never really come together as a district. Its entire history has been full of division since it was created. Bringing the students together into a central campus is the strongest and most forward thinking action to allow this to finally happen. I believe way too many voters have wanted to use Otsego as a crutch to attempt to support local villages. I believe that thinking is incorrect. Otsego's board and administration should and are doing what is best for Otsego students, period. That is why we elected them. What voters did on Nov. 3 was, I believe, to attempt to halt the forward progress of Otsego and jeopardize the smart financial use of all the resources we have available to us. Our board did its best to still do the right things in spite of many hurdles. I believe it is too bad they had to operate in this environment, but I applaud their guts. OK, now Teri- Let me start with your last sentence. Let me say, I believe, so OTres won't want to assume what it is I believe about my response to you, Jim Garber is exactly the kind of superintendent any public school system should wish and pray for. He has been honest, straightforward, thorough, clear and direct with his many communications to his district. I believe you just don't like the facts he shares with you, so you criticize him. But the facts are just that, facts. Regarding the rest of your paragraph, I believe you are partially correct. We did elect this board to be our voice. And what that voice was saying, over and over and over again, was to make the best use of the programs and moneys available to Otsego to build and allow to operate the best Otsego school system we can afford. I believe if you really wanted what is best for future Otsego students you would have reached the same conclusion our board did. Our board is the voice of the community, the Otsego community. Since so many people have not looked at the district that way, as a community, it's understandable that that point has been missed. I believe you will not miss the current board members, until January when it is possible that the "new" Otsego board may attempt to take us backwards, intead of forward. But I also believe that when the new board convenes and the new members more clearly see the numbers and what the other options were and especially what they would have cost us taxpayers, they'll understand what has happened and why. They will understnad that the right decisions have been made and, I hope, will also support them. I believe they'll keep Mr. Garber and then you'll continue to be unhappy. In summary, I am not an Otsego graduate, but have lived in the district for almost 30 years. Public education is not perfect. Unfortunately, the system of financing and operating a public school system locally sometimes puts neighbor against neighbor on opposing sides. As long as we can eventually compromise and maybe agree to disagree, we can still come together as, finally, the Otsego Schools community. I believe, OTres and Teri, that we can.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it useyourhead 2009-12-02 17:34:09 Holy crap brutus. Right along the party line. Must suck not to have a mind of your own. With your "logic" every job should provide health care. If that were the case then I'm sure you would blame the price of everything going up on the republicans. Welcome to McDonalds, would you like to supersize that for another $8.95? Giving postal workers a raise when they are that far in debt makes sense to you? Again, your logic, the democrats never do anything wrong.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it brutus 2009-12-02 18:19:36 Are you really that challenged useyourhead? What part of we the taxpayers are subsidizing these private companies by paying for these people's health care, food stamps, etc. don't you get? If the market then calls for McDonald's to charge $8.95 to supersize, so be it. You have a choice to supersize. This has nothing to do with being a Democrat. This is real life. If you like wages as they are don't bitch when they want to do health care where it is affordable for everyone.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-02 18:23:07 Bravo NotASocialistBut, You get it.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it brutus 2009-12-02 18:46:30 Maybe if you read this by Marcy Kaptur in front of Congress back in 1993 it may help. I would encourage everyone to read this about the job situation. http://www.thelaborers.net/HISTORY/demise_of_well.htm
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it useyourhead 2009-12-02 18:52:19 Private companies for food stamp and rent assistance ???? When you say "private company" you are referring to our govt. right? I really hope so. Our current mail delivery people are making over $24. When you raise entry level jobs to "At least $12.00 with insurance coverage", what will that mail delivery persons wage get raised to? Because everything that we buy will have to be increased significantly. The lady at Kroger giving free samples away will get paid $12hr plus health ins. How much would Kroger have to raise the prices of everything in their store to cover the cost? Oh yeah, the name calling thing. Childish.
Otsego takes step to build school Mitchell 2009-12-02 19:24:59 Guess the Weston folks that told Grand Rapids and Haskins to watch out were right. I feel bad I thought it was just the opinion of a few Weston people. It really was their goal the enitre time. Anyone else notice that Ms. Thomas quoted the mayor of Tontogany as a supporter for the new campus.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it BGCitizen 2009-12-02 19:29:34 We absolutely MUST try a public option. There must remain a segment of a national health care system that lies OUTSIDE of the private for-profit system. What are you afraid of? The socialist boogeyman? Seriously. The lack of a public health insurance option is a humanitarian disgrace. The amount of wealth and capital amasses by the private insurance industry is a crime. Money is not the issue, so quit blabbering on about market forces and insurance premiums. There are no two ways about it. We cannot "fix" what is broken. We must do something completely new or fail.
New concerns at old Cygnet dump Linda 2009-12-02 19:50:39 what is mayer Nancy Myers afraid of Mr Bates finding in the old scrap yard? How is calling the EPA and the Health Dept on Mr Bates consider helping him? It looks more like they are trying to slow him down.
Otsego takes step to build school Otres H8tr 2009-12-02 19:57:20 Really Otres, WE HAVE HEARD FROM YOUR SQUEAKY FREAKIN' WHEEL! Anyone who follows this has heard your rants. Again and again and again and again......... I will just say, I SUPPORT THE MOVE.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it useyourhead 2009-12-02 20:00:53 Is this the same Marcy Kaptur that wants to spend $450,000 to do a study on moving the BCI lab from Bowling Green to Toledo? "Why not bring sheriffs, police chiefs, current BCI and attorney general's staff, and local and university officials together first and at no cost to decide what is needed and where improvements could be made in our crime investigatory efforts?" Mr. Gardner MUST try a public option ?!?!? Isn't that what Medicare is? How is that doing? What is the dollar amount of fraud associated with Medicare? How many Dr's won't take Medicare becasue of the hassle of dealing with the govt., paperwork and the amount they get paid? What am I afraid of. All of that. Socialist boogyman? Grow up. We CAN fix what is broken if the people that CAN fix it have the people's best interest in mind and not their own agenda. I have said it before, if you believe that either party has the peoples best interest in mind, you are being fooled.
Otsego takes step to build school OTres 2009-12-02 20:45:04 Really H8tr, I believe, in looking at the numbers of the Nov. elections over 66% of the voters have spoken. The idea that just because you elect someone 4 years ago, you have to accept their plan. In other words if they tell to walk off the cliff, you will do it. Excuse me, the voters have spoken, get over it.
Otsego takes step to build school HASKINS RESIDENT 2009-12-02 22:43:08 JS's comments are absolutely laughable. Obviously he/she received a ticket from Haskins PD. I know they not only ticket non-Haskins residents, but also Haskins residents. Anyhow, the reason why I moved to Haskins was because of the school in our town. I also did so because of the Haskins Police. Nothing is more deterring to a child predator than the police being visible. Haskins PD does a good job of doing so. -------------------------------------------------------- They do? since Scott Frank and Brian Bonnough left I have hardly seen them out and about. Usually all 3 are parked around town hall like they are showing them off. the only time i see them out is on weekends sometimes and when the kids are going to or leaving school. does it take the 3 cruisers Haskins has to accomplish this? they buy a new one every 3 yrs. a town our size doesnt need all that. they spend alot of money that could be better spent elsewhere. Sorry I know this is off topic but the town should live more within its taxpayers means.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts gargie 2009-12-02 22:45:07 I like the LTE but 3 paragraphs is hardly enough to debunk anything. Right offhand his claim that "undermining a government is..." is kind of baseless since he references our own beginning. He said a mouthful and that will take some time to check over. Kind of strikes me odd that the teacher seems to have a problem with the no child left behind deal. I wonder if he was also a supporter of that. He’s right on the money with the failure of the free market to police itself and therefore when that happens government grows. I know something about the French revolution, you ain’t telling the whole story there, not even half of it. Why did the sewers run red? That’s what people are talking about today when they speak of socialism although it is nowhere near that and most have no clue what they’re talking about. You’re not in any way siding with the monarchy that ran France are you? If so you can stop right there, you are what people fear is to come and they have good reason to fear. “Nothing is more self destructive than irresponsible exercise of freedom. Freedom is the heaviest burden we bear and not a privilege to brag about.” In this situation I don’t like that comment at all. Freedom is not irresponsible, lawlessness is and that’s the breaking of the laws of freedom. It is both a burden and privilege, just ask people without it. It is precious and not one ounce of it should be given away without a battle. These days it given away almost daily, the recent farm bill issue 2 is proof of that.
Otsego takes step to build school energy guy 2009-12-02 23:16:20 From a cost standpoint here are the interesting facts. The Tontogany complex before the new building went into use had a five year average electric cost of 29,068.90 dollars. The ten year average gas cost was 39,059.50 for a total per year average of 68,128.40. The new complex for the school year 2008-09 shows an electric cost of 89,905.72 (number is one month short so numbers should be greater)and a gas cost average over 26 months of 10,377.25 per month or a total of 124,527.00 per year. Adding gas and electric and subtracting old numbers leaves us with an added operational cost of 146,304.32 plus the final electric bill for May of 09. Add in additional custodial , building supervisor costs, increased insurance costs and you have over one mill (approximately 210,000 ) of additional cost per year. It should be noted that the existing three elementaries together had a total operating cost of electric and gas of 114,006.81.If you add another new elementary building you will increase the costs the same as you did in the last new building, add in the "remodeling " of the very energy efficient old high school and you will add another 50,000.00 at least to its yearly cost.With increased busing costs you can easily add a total of 500,000.00 to the operating cost per year. That is 2 and a half mills of cost that has never been added to the tax rolls--and would need to be if you want to keep the schools solvent. These are good numbers taken directly from the records of the school.Do what you want-- but there is no free lunch and this building is not free either. either!
To the Editor: Millbury woman: Without life, who needs health care? Marlene 2009-12-03 01:31:39 Mary-Jo -- The GOP has been going after President Obama's health care initiative even more vehemently than they went after President Clinton's 15 years ago! Who was behind all those "protests" and the teabagger incidents? Why the GOP and their buddies in Big Pharma, and the insurance companies, that's who! Who was spreading the lies about "death panels" and "killing Grandma"? The GOP, that's who! To be fair, there are those in the Democratic Party who are also against this reform, but that's because they're also in the pocket of Big Pharma and the insurance companies! Deregulation at the hands of the GOP has destroyed this country and an entire economic class, and they should never be allowed control of Congress and the country again until the neocons are shove back into the sewer they came from and the moderates take their party back!
New concerns at old Cygnet dump Mark Foster 2009-12-03 04:27:33 Jesus christ, pay'em the 10.00 f'n dollars and be done with it all ready! You junkies are so GD cheap!
New concerns at old Cygnet dump Bloom Township Resident 2009-12-03 04:49:08 Mr. Bates so called recycle center (junkyard) is located on Jerry City Rd, on the east side of the railroad tracks, half mile east of US 25.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Tired 2009-12-03 06:58:31 The writer doesn't have a problem with the no child left behind program, the writer was merely pointing out that the program is similar to all the "socialist" programs that are already in place. You say that freedom is "precious and not once ounce of it should be given away with out a battle." But the same protestors that are against health care are the same that want to restrict a woman's RIGHT to choose. Pro-choice does not equal Pro Abortion. It is about PROTECTING OUR FREEDOMS AND RIGHTS! Kind of duplicitous don't you think?
Otsego takes step to build school Taxpayer & Parent 2009-12-03 07:43:30 Mitchell - you are absolutely right about the Togany mayor. Notice how the author conveniently hides his political status "Tontogany resident Nathan Wallace, who said he was bused to all three elementaries as a kid, said having students together for their entire school years would be a "huge benefit." He praised Garber for defending the financial feasibility of the recommendation." Had that article been written with a comment from Weston or Grand Rapids' mayor speaking in support of community schools, the reporter would have assured they were attributed their correct title. But we can't make it look like Togany is receiving any special favors or treatment, now, can we? Let's just go ahead and get the right information out their now: "Tontogany MAYOR Nathan Wallace, who said he was bused to all three elementaries as a kid, said having students together for their entire school years would be a "huge benefit." He praised Garber for defending the financial feasibility of the recommendation."
To the Editor: Save $450,000, and keep BCII lab in BG brutus 2009-12-03 10:31:32 A little paranoid are you Alan?
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it brutus 2009-12-03 10:36:28 Be afraid useyourhead, very afraid. Paranoia strikes deep Into your life it will creep It starts when you're always afraid You step out of line, the man come and take you away We better stop, hey, what's that sound Everybody look what's going down
To the Editor: BG resident has some 'holiday' issues BGVOTER 2009-12-03 13:00:13 I'm sorry, but what are you talking about? Why was this published? Didn't know Thanksgiving was a religious holiday.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it BGCitizen 2009-12-03 15:20:11 useyourhead: you just contradicted yourself (again). You said: "We CAN fix what is broken if the people that CAN fix it have the people's best interest in mind and not their own agenda. I have said it before, if you believe that either party has the peoples best interest in mind, you are being fooled." Um...duh. The political process is part of the problem. We need a new healthcare system. Neither the Democrats nor the GOP has anyone's interest in mind except their funders. THAT's why we may not get a public option. Medicaid is NOT a public option. A public option is one you do not need to QUALIFY for. To get Medicaid, you need to QUALIFY for it. I have worked in the healthcare field for 11 years. The folks on Medicaid get it A LOT better than folks on employer insurance (the cheapest kind). If you REALLY think Medicaid does not work, I hope you are never on it. I assume you will respond with something about money.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it useyourhead 2009-12-03 15:39:25 You said " Medicaid is NOT a public option" House Democrats are looking at re-branding the public health insurance option as “Medicare Part E”, an established government healthcare program that is better known than the public option. Then you go onto to say "Um...duh. The political process is part of the problem." "Democrats nor the GOP has anyone's interest in mind except their funders." Yet you are arguing FOR the public option presented by people that don't have your best interest in mind? Doesn't sound very smart to me.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it brutus 2009-12-03 15:54:17 You know useyourhead, you shouldn't respond to things so quickly. You should read and absorb what someone writes and then maybe you can give a coherent response, instead of one out of anger.
To the Editor: BG resident has some 'holiday' issues ktmylady96 2009-12-03 16:21:12 What are you smoking?
Falcon football player arrested for assault iawlfan 2009-12-03 16:26:33 Looks like not even the new coach can't control these thugs. I realize that he is innocent until proven guilty. But the football program has once again been given another black eye that can't be taken away, even if he is found not guilty or the charges are dismissed. Maybe BGSU should look at cutting the football program instead of the hockey program. Or maybe they should start running background checks on their student athletes. What a joke...and a sad one at that.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Bunker 2009-12-03 16:35:09 It's the same people who are protesting for the PRO-CHOICE movement that don't care about unborn humans, but want to stop farmers from using water to save a fish (check it out in California). It's the same people who think that abortion is in the Constitution, but don't think that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to feep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" means exactly that. I'd rather have the 9mm in my closet than a vacuum and needle to murder the unborn. I'm sure the Founders would agree....
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-03 16:43:40 So you don't want Government to infringe on your right to bear arms but your for Government to infringe on women's rights. No one says abortion is in the Constitution, and that is why it is a woman's right.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it Bunker 2009-12-03 16:59:53 BGCitizen, why didn't you help pay for your MIL's health insurance? Why do you want to FORCE people into compassion when you have none? If my MIL's house burnt down, I'd let her move in with me, not propose a tax on my neighbors to pay for it. Medicaid is such a great program, and the government pays SO well that ALL doctors take it, right? That's why only two dentists in Wood County take it, right?
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Bunker 2009-12-03 17:12:30 I wouldn't consider it an infringement on women's rights as much as I would see it as a protection of life of the innocent. If the right to abortion is not in the Constitution, then it is left up to the stated to decide, per the 10th ammendment. That is why gay marriage is a state issue - not in the Constitution. Just to put it out there, the Goverment Health Care is unconstitutional, too. It could be done by the states, but not by the feds.
To the Editor: Affordable health care can't wait Bunker 2009-12-03 17:18:42 useyourhead, you know she didn't read her policy. Then again, the libs don't even want to read the health care bill before voting for it. Birds of a feather...
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-03 17:24:23 A person is not a person until out of the womb. That is just the way it is. Already settled law.
Otsego takes step to build school Teri 2009-12-03 17:30:17 PPF Otsego Supporter: First you don't have to tear my comment apart, I know what I said and what I mean. Further more, you are absolutly right that the board is the voice of the community, about 10% of them. The rest of the school district made it known that they were unhappy with what the board was doing. So instead of listening to everyone, they just kicked opposition under the rug and did what they wanted. As far as my opinion of the superintendent, I don't know the man but I do know that his actions were not in the best interest of the entire school district.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Bunker 2009-12-03 18:25:50 You had better tell Scott Peterson that a person is only a person until out of the womb. He was convicted of 2nd degree murder (not practicing medicine without a license) for the killing of his unborn child in Laci Peterson's womb. Murder is the killing of another human, not a "mass of cells". This "settled law" is still being debated as "fetal homicide", sir.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it useyourhead 2009-12-03 18:33:06 brutus, hahahaha so typical of you. At least you are consistent.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it BGCitizen 2009-12-03 18:37:59 useyourhead: MY MIL did live with me and we cared for her full-time. We did not make enough money to buy her health insurance: it cost too much for us. We watched her die, thank you very much. She died in our side room, the size of a closet. Don't speak another word to me about compassion you hypocrite. FORCE people into compassion? Are you serious? I want to FORCE the public system to be more compassionate, yes. The public option I want is WAY beyond what either party would propose. I would advocate FULLY funded healthcare for EVERYONE. No person on Medicaid has had a problem getting care in my 11 years of experience. Have you EVER dealt with someone on Medicaid? If we pay taxes for war and bank bailouts, why cannot we pay taxes so everyone has healthcare? You should never utter the word compassion again. It soulds artificial coming from a hypocrite. Rot in hell.
To the Editor: Millbury woman: Without life, who needs health care? REALchange 2009-12-03 19:15:09 The opposite of deregulation is the notion that the government needs to be involved in every aspect of our daily lives. I don't know about you, but I'm already sick of Obama and his cronies trying to control everything from the lightbulbs that I use to the beverage that I choose to drink. Every day on the news there is talk of another new tax to support his non-sensical and absurd socialistic agenda. All of you people who think that this new health care bill is going to be some sort of godsend are in for a rude awakening. It's just like every other bill that congress passes: it is chock-full of taxes and all sorts of garbage that will end up costing us dearly! Why do you think it's over 2000 pages long??? It's another load of crap just like the stimulus bill that Obama guaranteed would keep unemployment under 8%!
To the Editor: Millbury woman: Without life, who needs health care? Tired 2009-12-03 19:48:03 "It's another load of crap just like the stimulus bill that Obama guaranteed would keep unemployment under 8%" How about that stimulus bill GWB passed too? Obama doesn't deserve a free pass but I am sick of hearing it wasn't GWB that got us into this mess.....Who was president for the 8 years previous..Wars cost a lot of money and I still haven't seen the Iraqis writing us a check with the money from thier oil...
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Tired 2009-12-03 19:58:23 So if it is an issue you care about then that is all that matters? Screw everybody else huh Bunker? Sounds just like GWB....Teabagging hypocrite....
Otsego takes step to build school Past supporter 2009-12-04 05:53:37 Energy guy- you are leaving some cost out More Energy Cost + New payment + More busing + More teachers hired for all day Kindergarten + New teacher contracts + New bus needs + More gas and drivers for transportation + Lower property values + declining enrollment + a 5 year forcast that shows Red even with the board now counting on property value increases in that projection = way more then then this district can currently pay for.
Otsego takes step to build school PPF Otsego Supporter 2009-12-04 06:05:54 Teri: It is not my intention to "tear your comments apart", I am just engaging in a healthly discussion. If Otsego citizens did more of this, I think we would get more issues on common ground. Too often, incorrect comments and negative remarks are just lobbed back and forth and people don't talk things through. I believe, so OTres doesn't try to analyze again, that the school board has acted on behalf of many more than 10% of "them". In fact, I believe that if 100% of "them" had done all the research and had access to all the info the board did and were asked to vote, "they" would have come up with the same decision the board did. I still give the board credit they did not listen to 'everyone", but listened to the facts, not people's personal and uninformed decisions. Lastly, I do not believe the board absolutley did what they wanted, I think they did what was the best for Otsego with the resources they were given. Much of what I've read and heard suggests that Otsego voters would have passed a plan to build 3 elementaries, possibly passing up much or all of the OSFC money. It is suggested we voters would have supported and passed the 3 school plan even if it cost us $7 million or more than the central campus. It is my belief Otsego voters would not have done that due to cost. Then if that vote did fail, the board would have had to plan to invest money into the old existing buildings. If/when that wasteful spending would happen they would lose many more votes and supporters like me.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it brutus 2009-12-04 06:23:29 Bunker, another hate filled POS.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-04 06:33:44 Bunker, Just to be consistent, I can safely assume you are against the death penalty, you are against both wars where hundreds of thousands of innocent people were killed, against the bible where God ordered all 1st born be killed.
To the Editor: BG resident has some 'holiday' issues tiger 2009-12-04 09:11:27 Hey I am a student from bowling middle school. Thank you for posting this. My English Teacher decided to use this as an example of writing that was hard to identify the topic. It's not that your opinion is bad but we can't realize what this "topic" is. I suggest if you want to be heard then write this again but with a more defined way of speaking. Also, we would like to know what "let's getting Vanilla."
Otsego takes step to build school Past supporter 2009-12-04 09:22:36 Otsego supporter Eastwood has listen to its voters and have decided to turn down OSFC money. They could of entered into a lease program but they understand the wants and wishes of the voter. This school district has less then 200,000 in it's 13 million dollar budget not spoken for. We have no money and this board is fully aware that this new building will cost a lot more to operate then the 3 elementary schools we now have. They are also aware that busing cost will also be more and that this new building has no room for all day Kindergarten. Many more school districts have chosen to wait with regards to OSFC projects why our we the only one who would be stupid to do this? The state is required to take low bids on all construction and they are also energy hogs. We will never have enough money to operate this facility or give staff members the benefits and compensation they will demand in contracts.
Otsego takes step to build school OTres 2009-12-04 09:53:40 Otsego Supporter, I have never said the board was only representing 10% of the voters. I have said they should represent the majority vote, as this is what democracy is all about. I agree with past supporter and you need to get your facts straight. $200,000 is all that is available as unencumbered funds out of a $13 million dollar budget at the end of the year. Even with faculty cuts, you still cannot avert deficits in the very near term. You have teachers that are expecting raises in these tough economic times. As past supporter stated higher cost for operating the facilities after being built. I am not excited about a lease company owning the building for 15 - 30 years. Circumventing the voter was the whole reason for this mess and I am afraid the voters have very good memories. An extreme disservice is about to happen to the true education of our children. The economics this current board has engaged in is exactly what has happened to our country. You must feel you have all of the facts, share them with us, some honest transparent dialogue can be good as long as it is honest and transparent.
To the Editor: Millbury woman: Without life, who needs health care? brutus 2009-12-04 10:02:57 Hey REALchange, turn off Fox news and you won't have to listen to all that propaganda about taxes.
To the Editor: Harry the Mailman will keep delivering Santa letters brutus 2009-12-04 11:43:55 gargie, Thank God for that Government run Post Office heh. Good job Harry.
Wind pays off for BG Marlene 2009-12-04 13:10:06 The turbines are for the BG municipal grid, Dudley, but you can always petition your electricity provider to start going green, but I doubt they'd do it. There's nothing keeping you from erecting a windmill and/or solar cells of your own to generate electricity to your home, dear.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts NotASocialistBut... 2009-12-04 13:51:59 I've read Bunker's posts on this website. He is a troll here and is not contributing to the exchange of ideas. He is probably a nazi. He and at least 2 others are either provocateurs for the entrenched establishment, or REALLY REALLY closed minded people. Bunker: I hope your female relatives are never raped or pregnant before 18. LETS MAKE MORTE BABIES because women are ONLY baby-making machines! Since life is sacred, let's have more! Quantity over Quality!!! Then we can give free guns to all the unwanted children so they can kill fags on the way to church and speak in tongues! The best way to care for unborn children is to force their unqualified mothers to bring them into an overpopulated world like that! woo hoo! Where do I sign up?
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts NotASocialistBut... 2009-12-04 13:52:12 I've read Bunker's posts on this website. He is a troll here and is not contributing to the exchange of ideas. He is probably a nazi. He and at least 2 others are either provocateurs for the entrenched establishment, or REALLY REALLY closed minded people. Bunker: I hope your female relatives are never raped or pregnant before 18. LETS MAKE MORTE BABIES because women are ONLY baby-making machines! Since life is sacred, let's have more! Quantity over Quality!!! Then we can give free guns to all the unwanted children so they can kill fags on the way to church and speak in tongues! The best way to care for unborn children is to force their unqualified mothers to bring them into an overpopulated world like that! woo hoo! Where do I sign up?
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts gargie 2009-12-04 17:03:26 Freedom isn't for one over another. In an abortion there are 2 people involved. I'm all for choice give the infant the right to choose weather or not it doesn't want to live. Don't hand out the line about it's a womans body, unless it's an immaculate conception you already made a choice unless you were unwilling, but even then the kids just as innocent as the woman.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-04 18:37:53 gargie, same question for you, Just to be consistent, I can safely assume you are against the death penalty, you are against both wars where hundreds of thousands of innocent people were killed, against the bible where God ordered all 1st born be killed.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts NotASocialistBut... 2009-12-05 07:18:15 Hey brutus: they won't answer your very good question. They are coming from a hypocritical standpoint. The power to DEFINE life is in the hands of the mother because it IS her body after all, and it's not just a "line" it is a fact. So a person is not a person until the mother decides it is so. The radical fundies like gargie want to take that power away from women as they have been doing for about 3000 years. They will not answer for wars or the death penalty because they will contradict themselves. Just like they do when they quote biblical religion to back up an argument. brutus: I've read your posts & you SEEM a level headed person. Perhaps we could even have a rational exchange on this forum without being trolled by ignorant fascists?
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Bunker 2009-12-05 09:10:30 Brutus and NotASocialist would have a GREAT exchange on here by themselves. I can just hear the comments - " Well, I love BO sooooo much I'd let him get to third base". SWEEEET! The death penalty is thrown out because I said to protect the life of the INNOCENT! I would OK abortion in the case of incest, rape, health of the mother (her right to life) or if they are liberal POS. Not because you got drunk and slept with the football team or think that you shouldn't be "punished" for your choices. War is war and innocent people die and things get broken. We have far less innocents dying because of our technology and weaponry, and do not target civilians as a policy. So being pro-abortion must mean you love the death penalty and war with anyone who inconvenience you? You libs/marxists/maoists/ are soo easy. I believe in God, but not so much the bible...
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it Bunker 2009-12-05 10:06:24 I have more compassion than our POS president! His step brother lives in a mud hut in Africa surviving on less than $20 a year. BO used to make that kind of money in a single transaction selling weed back in the day ( source: his book! ) , but has never sent his brother a dime to get him out of poverty. Do you think he would care if YOUR MIL dies? Also check out his answer to Jane Sturm when she asks if her 105 year old mother, who was 100 when she got her pacemaker, would have been approved for treatmen. His response is that she may just have had to take a pain pill instead of getting treatment. BO's response seems to say that just giving your MIL a pain pill would be OK, since treatment may not have helped her. Too poor to afford pain pills? Also, if her pension was so small, why didn't you help her plan for her retirement? I KNOW that you can opt into a retirement investment fund through the union. Don't lie and say the teacher's union doesn't do anything for their members (sarcasm)!
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-05 10:17:06 I would love to debate and have a rational discussion with these people NotASocialistBut, but it hard because they are so closed minded and irrational it is pathetic. And the funny part is they think I and some others agree with everything President Obama says. All they do is attack the President no matter what he does, and he has been in office only 10 months. As much as I didn't like Bush even I agreed with some of the things he did early on. But these people take no responsibility for the mess our country is in right now. None. They act like all these things happened Jan. 20 2009. And Bunker, where do you get we are pro-abortion? We are pro-choice. I and most others would like to see less abortions, and for this to happens there needs to be less pregnancies. But you people are against giving these people education and birth control. You want everything your way or no way. No compromising whatsoever. You complain after they have kids that they are on welfare and you don't want to pay for them, but you hate places like planned parenthood. You consider yourselves pro-life, but in reality you are pro-birth. Once they are born they are on their own. I give up.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it Bunker Sucks 2009-12-05 10:21:00 Racist teabagging scumbag TROLL!!
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it brutus 2009-12-05 10:34:04 Bunker, did you even watch what was said in it's entirety? What he was saying these end of life decisions should be made by the Doctor and patient, not by some bureaucracy or insurance company. Here is the link to the complete video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJYvaLS-xOw
To the Editor: BGSU can cut fees, boost enrollment Mikedun23 2009-12-05 11:00:57 Here here, Mr. Conrad! As a proud BGSU student, I am happy to see that some in our community support a common sense approach to dealing with the budget crunch. However, those living "very comfortably in the box" are doing what they always do: increasing the burden for those least able to manage it (students), while simultaneously accepting inflated salaries and bonuses (administrators). How about giving some of these inflated salaries back? BGSU could do a lot to curb these administrative costs. For instance, why do we need FIVE Dean of Students (Dean of Students, 2 Assistant Dean of Students, and 2 Associate Dean of Students)? Absolutely ridiculous! Assistant AND Associate Dean of Students? Meanwhile, the administration refuses to adequately compensate the real talent at BGSU--the faculty. Our faculty are grossly underpaid as compared to comparable institutions (i.e. Kent State) and the administration's inflated payroll and inefficient structure is to blame. Let's get back to the focus of a university--teachers and learners.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it Bunker 2009-12-05 11:50:48 You called me names! BOO HOO! Much better than a logical statement! I figure that TROLL stands for Totally Right On Liberal Lies, sice you capitalized it like NRA, moron.
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it Bunker the TROLL 2009-12-05 12:01:58 He says in the video that he "doesn't want a bureaucracy to make the decisions for people, BUT IT HAPPENS EVERY DAY BY INSURANCE COMPANIES"! It's like Ross Perot's line of "I don't want to be president. Would not give two cents for it. BUT THE PEOPLE WANTED HIM TO". It's a way of doing something and saying that's not what they wanted. It provides the democrats cover even when passed. Check out the long version of the clip on YouTube - he says, in a nutshell, that even though the patient and doctor should make the decisions, bureaucracy will have to (even though he doesn't want it to) because the insurance companies are doing it now.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Bunker 2009-12-05 12:35:22 Wow,I guess that I am pro-life and pro-birth. I went to planned parenthood after I got married and was very disappointed with what I saw. If you want to teach about birth control, cool. I don't think that abortion on demand is an option that should teach as a method of birth control. I also don't think eight year olds should be taught about oral and anal sex, or that it's okay and a part of life to experiment with members of the same sex. Maybe we could put birth control / sterilants in the water without telling people, and forced sterilization of the poor/disabled, like Cass Sunstein ( BO's regulatory czar) suggests. We both know that people are too stupid to close their legs, and do we really want that many poor? Unbelievable!
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it brutus 2009-12-05 12:47:04 Oh well, I tried to reason, you heard what he said, you go on to say something else. I notice you wingnuts like to reference Ross Perot lately. Do you even know what policies he ran on? I will refresh your memories: On February 20, 1992, he appeared on CNN's Larry King Live and announced his intention to run as an independent if his supporters could get his name on the ballot in all 50 states. With such declared policies as balancing the federal budget, firm pro-choice stance, expansion of the war on drugs, ending outsourcing of jobs, opposition to gun control, belief in protectionism on trade, his support of the Environmental Protection Agency and enacting electronic direct democracy via "electronic town halls," he became a potential candidate and soon polled roughly even with the two major party candidates. Pro-choice, Protectionism and a strong EPA. Everything you wingnuts are against. Guess you won't be referencing Ross anymore.
To the Editor: Millbury woman: Without life, who needs health care? REALchange 2009-12-05 13:08:56 I never said that I was in favor of the socilistic tendancies of GWB either! He started the ball rolling by bailing out the auto industry--he should have let them fail. Just another example of "rewarding" poor behavior. But you can hardly compare GWB's spending with that of Obama--Obama has has nearly doubled the deficit already and he's only been in office for 11 months. His goofy health care plan is going to be a complete disaster. He'll tax the crap out of businesses and the rich to pay for it, then we'll all whine because the jobless rate continues to climb, and more and more jobs will go overseas. And brutus, I know that you don't have to worry about taxes because you likely don't pay any. Sitting at home all day and typing on the Sentinel Tribune blog doesn't pay very well does it?
To the Editor: Millbury woman: Without life, who needs health care? brutus 2009-12-05 14:51:26 All hot air no facts. Ho-hum, yawn.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-05 15:10:43 Cass Sunstein, Glenn Beck's new target. Bwahahaa. Whatever credibility you had was just lost. Glenn Beck, bwahahaahaaahaaaha.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts gargie 2009-12-05 15:28:24 I can saftley assume your against law enforcement. Do you concider these things wrong and if so why are you coupling them with abortion which you think is right? In the case of the bible I'd read the book first before using it. Just so you know I once did not to prove anything but to learn whatever it had to say. In the end of 3 years I'd read every word straight through 7 times. Concider this the first born of the Isrealites was to be killed and because of that form of abortion the people who were going to preform the abortion lost their own children. I have the same problem with that as i do abortion today.
L. Bernadine Shilling The Eramo Family 2009-12-05 15:32:02 Dear Dave, Vicki, Michael, and Mary, We send our deepest sympathy and our love and prayers to you on the loss of Bernadine. May she rest in peace, and may God's perpetual light shine upon her. With our love and sympathy, Jenny, Tony, Vince, and Dominic.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Bunker 2009-12-05 17:26:12 Brutus, you prove yourself to be a simpleton and ignorant time and time again! You state some crappy, kool-aid drinking tripe, the scholars among us debunk every word out of your mouth, then you call names or try to disregard truths by bleating the party line. Glenn Beck said 4 + 4= 8, so it must be a lie! I say the truth is the truth no matter who says it. I've never heard Glenn say anything anywhere near as bad as Jerimiah "Not God Bless America, GOD DAMN AMERICA" Wright. And Glenn doesn't have the president's ear, either. How much do you pay for your keyboard's drool guard anyways? Loser!
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it Bunker the TROLL 2009-12-05 17:52:02 You must say that you watched the video, but really didn't. He says "I DON'T WANT BUREAUCRACY MAKING CHOICES FOR PATIENTS, BUT INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE DOING THAT NOW". He didn't say that he isn't going to let bureaucrats make the choices, but they have to because insurance companies are doing it now. I never said that I liked Ross Perot, just using his language as an example. He helped give us 8 years of Bill "Impeached" Clinton, like Nader did for Bush in 2000. Ross is more like a Dennis Kucinich or Ron Paul - a joke at best. Mainly voted for by people wearing tinfoil hats or playing the bongos. I think the health care bill is 2000 pages long due to the Bill "disbarred" Clinton factor & having to define what the definition of "is" is. Clinton's heath care bill failed (and it was more popular than BHO's), and the Republicans swept congress due to it's unpopularity.
To the Editor: Millbury woman: Without life, who needs health care? Bunker 2009-12-05 18:05:33 We should give Robert "KKK" Byrd some Obamacare. Then we'll see if his racist hide makes the next senate vote!
To the Editor: Millbury woman: Without life, who needs health care? Bunker 2009-12-05 18:21:25 BHO's deficit is actually TRIPLE last year's. My source isn't Fox News, but low rating MSNBC / AP www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33348615/ keep proving yourself the fool, brutus
To the Editor: BG resident has some 'holiday' issues Bunker 2009-12-05 18:39:21 Only LaToya Jackson (or brutus) could have said it better! You, sir Jaxon, are truly a wordsmith!
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-05 18:43:53 Troll. Glenn Beck, bwahahahahaah.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-05 18:47:09 You are either for life or against it gargie. You can't pick and choose.
Otsego takes step to build school listening 2009-12-05 20:27:55 I was just wondering if any of you upset people would be willing to work for unity across the district. Or is negativity the only approach you are capable of? It is obvious that many of you continue to be competitive between the towns. I'm lucky, I live in the country. I frequent the businesses in all four communities. Do you? Is there any possibility of us getting together and looking at our common goals (the children and cost savings)? I believe we have more similarities than differences, if we can allow ourselves to see them and if we can get over our self-serving concerns. I also remember reading in the paper that there was only one board candidate that said he was for keeping the schools in the towns. The other two who were elected said they hadn't made up their mind, and needed more information. Did they lie, in order to get elected? Perhaps it is time for all of us to grow up and become positive role models for our children and/or our neighbors' children. Have the towns in the Elmwood district collapsed? I honestly don't know the answer to this question. Have they? All the people from Elmwood I have talked to seem happy with their new school. Why is that? If you openly listen to the numbers, what is with the gloom and doom? Will our grandchildren ultimately suffer because of our immature fighting? I do expect some backlash for my comments, which I guess will just prove my point. Look at the children in the district. What sort of imaginative, curious, wonderful friends from the other towns are waiting to be their friends?
Otsego takes step to build school OTres 2009-12-06 08:26:53 Listening, If one does not agree with the current board, one is negative. When the high school was built. we had agreement and the positive agreement was to keep the local elementary schools. This was achieved by open and honest dialogue and some truly transparent dialogue as to what everyone at that time agreed upon. It was signed and agreed to, to help get the vote out for a positive outcome. Then we change superintendents and all of a sudden the current board decides times have changed and they will no longer honor the commitment made for the local communities. I believe that working to compromise was really a great piece of teamwork to get the high school built. The board made it quite clear to all voters and taxpayers this time, that teamwork and open honest compromise was off the table. All of us need to look around and see the absolute negative effects the current economy has presented to us. We all still have neighbors that are unemployed and losing their homes for one reason or another. We need to stop the current rush to build, times again have changed since the current board started this whole process. Call me and others negative, but I believe we are still allowed to vote and express our concerns for the education of our children going forward. The board has heard the voters and they need to realize that compromise never hurts to bring opposing sides together. It worked to get the high school built.
Inaugural concert martine 2009-12-06 09:00:57 In addition to including a select few in the photos, a full orchestra picture with the director should have been shown since it is a full-group effort.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-06 12:02:50 gargie, I'm a bit confused when you talk about us losing our rights. You talk about issue 2, the farm bill, which I voted no on, as taking away our rights, but you are all for the Government taking away a woman's right to choose. Please reconcile.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts LostHere 2009-12-06 12:33:09 I read these posts and it is obvious to me that "gargie" and "Bunker" are hateful idiots. They are full of lies and inaccurate bigotry. "NotASocialistBut" Seems to have the most level head here. Maybe brutus, but he seems to take the bait of gargie and the hate-mongers too much. brutus: ignore them, they and their opinions are worthless. Hey ignorant conservatives: go to another website! Your rhetoric is lacking merit in this public forum. There are places for you like: http://www.nsm88.org/ You are a stain on our community.
Hisers struggle with hardship anniya77 2009-12-06 15:42:23 OH the irony of the Sentinel Tribune running such an article. My thoughts are with you, Hiser family.
Keppler one of fortunate few anniya77 2009-12-06 15:46:59 How about featuring some of your own employees and former employees and the hardships they've endured thanks to your paycuts and layoffs? The Sentinel is so enthusiastic to share the failings of other companies and organizations, how about sharing your own failings?
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Bunker 2009-12-06 16:09:03 LostHere, you are a stain on everything our forefathers fought for. Tired, NotASocialistBut (who actually likes socialism), and brutus spout lies and marxist propaganda. Gargie, UseYourHead, and myself are here to fight and stand up for the Constitution and the American Dream of freedom for all. If you don't like what you read here, try the Toledo Blade. Until they repeal the First Ammendment, I will be here pointing out your ignorance and using solid facts against your communistic "hope" and "change" sieg heils. LostHere you are a disgrace to your forefathers.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Bunker 2009-12-06 16:34:08 brutus has admitted that he is pro-war, pro death penalty, pro cruel execution of animals and babies and pro holocaust in comment number 30. Since you can only be for life or against it, and he's pro abortion. Way to trap yourself, dummy. (31) The fedeal government can't put a law into place, legally, to ban abortion. It's not Constitutional, but neither is the ability to make it legal. It should have been left up to the states to decide (that pesky 10th ammendment). Then again, it's also unConstitutional to force someone to get insurance on a federal level. Do you even TRY to do research?
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-06 17:00:30 bunker/useyourhead, you are one sick puppy. Last time you used the screen name hmmmmm, until I called you on it. I don't think gargie wants to be classified in the same box as you. You really need help because your posts are getting further and further to the edge. Seek help before you hurt yourself or more importantly someone else.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts NotASocialistBut 2009-12-06 20:45:22 I have never used any Marxist propaganda in my writing on this forum. Nor have I read any marxist propaganda by ANY other posters on this site, including the leftists. Bunker: do you even KNOW what Marxism is? You level that accusation against anyone who disagrees with your ill-informed, wrongheaded, and clearly uneducated position. I am not a Marxist. That accusation is based on Bunker's fear and brainwashing. Bunker: your ignorant statements make it clear that YOU are a disgrace to everything that could be considered "American". Your forefathers would disown you unless they were also ignorant jingo rednecks too. Your "American Dream" is a MYTH. Especially since your remarks make it clear that freedom is not "for all" (eg - women, the poor, people who do not agree with Bunker and jingo idiots.) You DO NOT use ANY solid facts. You use conservative Republican propaganda, which MY forefathers DID NOT fight in WWI, WWII, and Korea for. They fought so that people including women and the poor COULD have freedoms that conservatives would deny us. I too will use the First Amendment to shout down the hate-speech written here by Bunker & useyourhead (the same person I wonder? - they sound the same). Thanks to you, this is no longer a forum for intelligent debate. It has now become a platform for the paranoid rantings of the TRULY ignorant. Bunker: you have DISOWNED our forefathers and they reject your fascist hate-speech. You represent the smallest, most ignorant minority of our population. The ideas and false values of conservatism are dying out. Good riddance.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts useyourhead 2009-12-07 06:37:22 NotASocialistBut, brutus. With your logic that bunker and I are one in the same, one could conclude that you two are one in the same. To ALL. There is no doubt that people have different opinions and some are more passionate about theirs than others. How those opinions are expressed tells a great deal about a person. Once name calling and assumptions are introduced into the "debate" the credibility of that person is completely compromised.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-07 09:01:20 I would say once hate and ignorance is introduced by bias resources that person's credibility is completely compromised.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Tired 2009-12-07 09:17:14 The main reason for responding to these "opinions" IS to have a spirited debate. Useyourhead you have always been a fun adversary and most can see the tongue and cheek comments and take them for what they are. I look forward to more of the same as I am sure brutus does. When somebody calls our current President a POS that crosses a line; during the 8 years of GWB I certainly didn't agree with a lot of what Bush did but I never called him a piece of S&^T in a public forum; he is still President and no matter if you like him or not deserves respect just like the rest of us. We are love this country and want better for all of it's people.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts useyourhead 2009-12-07 09:44:28 Calling anyone a POS in a public forum is crossing the line. Other comments such as "I really think you teabaggers were weened off the breast to soon, because all you do is whine." " teabaggers, wingnuts, ignorant conservatives" and comments (inaccurate) that people only use Beck,Rush and "Faux News" as a resource is childish and obviously following strict party lines, which is sad and ignorant.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts Tired 2009-12-07 09:51:37 I agree but also some of those statements are just pokes, making fun IMO. Teabaggers etc is the same thing...not that it makes it right but when the "liberal, Marxist" etc words are thrown around too I just laugh. I think both of us can agree that people need to learn the facts on BOTH sides when debating, and one should never use FOX NEWS as a starting point to learn about that facts. ;)
To the Editor: Don't throw out what we have, just fix it brutus 2009-12-07 10:25:40 A true indication you don't have any facts to support your position is to drag Bill Clinton into it. Sad.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts brutus 2009-12-07 11:13:45 Actually useyourhead, NotASocialistBut is a much better writer than me. But you and bunker have the same writing skills. So quit your belly aching and bring facts to support your positions and not someone else's opinions or biased writings.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts useyourhead 2009-12-07 13:20:51 Tired, yes facts are needed. The name calling ( just pokes ) are not needed. Never use FOX NEWS ? I wouldn't say "never". brutus, assumptions can get you in trouble. Bring facts ? Read post #37. How those opinions are expressed tells a great deal about a person. Once name calling and assumptions are introduced into the "debate" the credibility of that person is completely compromised. brutus "quit your belly aching" Point made, thank you.
To the Editor: Rants about socialism lack facts useyourhead 2009-12-07 13:20:55 Tired, yes facts are needed. The name calling ( just pokes ) are not needed. Never use FOX NEWS ? I wouldn't say "never". brutus, assumptions can get you in trouble. Bring facts ? Read post #37. How those opinions are expressed tells a great deal about a person. Once name calling and assumptions are introduced into the "debate" the credibility of that person is completely compromised. brutus "quit your belly aching" My point made, thank you.